Mathematics—DJ, producer, visual artist, and the man behind the iconic Wu-Tang “W” logo- talks to AllHipHop about his new project Black Samson, the Bastard Swordsman. This album could very well be the last full Wu-album that gives fans the vibes of old. And yet, Math gives new vibes infusing live instruments, samples and unlikely artists like Benny The Butcher, Kool G Rap, RJ Payne, 38 Spesh and singer Nicole Bus.
From the soulful, rugged origins to the surreal creation of one of Hip-Hop’s most recognizable symbols, Mathematics opens up like never before. He breaks down the evolution of his sound, shares personal stories about Wu-Tang Clan members, discusses how grief inspired one of his most powerful tracks, and gives his take on AI’s role in modern creativity. He even shares stories about how Wu-Tang pulled up on his job back when he was a carpenter. This isn’t just an interview. It’s a masterclass in Hip-Hop history, art, and legacy.
Check out an edited Q&A, but watching the interview with Chuck “Jigsaw” Creekmur and DJ Thoro is a must.
Chuck Creekmur: First off, Black Samson, the Bastard Swordsman is dope. You brought all the Wu members, plus heads like Benny the Butcher, G Rap, Kurupt, and even Uncle Ralph.
Mathematics: Appreciate it. It took a minute. I don’t make beats like I used to. Now I craft. I build songs. So when I bring it to the MCs, it’s already layered up. Cats like 38 Spesh, I pulled up on him. Kurupt, same. Uncle Ralph—had to pay homage.
DJ Thoro: Anybody ever say “nah” to one of your beats?
Mathematics: Hell yeah! And I appreciate that. If you ain’t feeling it, don’t get on it. But sometimes, I push through and they’re like, “Yo, you were right.”
Chuck Creekmur: Talk to us about joining Wu-Tang.
Mathematics: I’m from South Side Queens. Not Staten or Brooklyn. That’s why I call myself the “Bastard Swordsman.” But I was down since day one. I designed the logo. I knew RZA since I was 15, from the Nation of Gods and Earths. That’s how I connected with him and GZA—Jus Allah to me. It took years before I even met GZA. I used to think he was like Mr. Snuffleupagus—heard about him but never saw him!
DJ Thoro: So the DJ bug hit you how?
Mathematics: Grandmaster Vic. Park jams in Queens. Saw him kill it—graceful, fly. I was like, “Yeah, I wanna do that.”
Chuck Creekmur: You made the jump from DJing to production. How?
Mathematics: Honestly, I didn’t even know I was producing. After things fell apart with GZA at Cold Chillin’, I just started sampling loops. Then I saw RZA cooking up Cuban Linx and Liquid Swords—mad layered. Inspired me. When I heard him make “Ice Cream,” I was knocked out on the couch but still catching the whole vibe. That night, I copped an ASR-10 the next day.
DJ Thoro: People confuse your beats with RZA’s. Ever bother you?
Mathematics: Sometimes. Especially early on. People give RZA credit for “Mighty Healthy.” That was me. But folks did their research over time.
DJ Thoro: Let’s run down a few of your joints.
Mathematics: “Mighty Healthy,” “Cobra Clutch,” “Publicity,” “Wu Banga 101” Man, there’s more, but that brain fog hit. [Laughs]
Chuck Creekmur: What track took you out of your comfort zone?
Mathematics: A jungle remix I didn’t even want to do. But I got paid! [Laughs] These days, I experiment more. Like “Dolomite” with Cap, U-God, and Masta Killa—very different, but still Hip-Hop.
Chuck Creekmur: Nicole Bus is a gem on this project.
Mathematics: Facts. My mom passed and I created “Claudine” that night. Needed a soulful voice. I remembered Nicole from when she flipped “C.R.E.A.M.”—blew my mind. Hit her on IG, she responded instantly. She added instrumentation. Then I got Ghostface on it—his verse was crazy. Meth came in and tied it all together. It’s one of my most personal joints ever.
DJ Thoro: You play instruments?
Mathematics: Piano. By ear. I can mess around on drums but Redman is nasty on drums. So is Chaka Khan.
Chuck Creekmur: The Wu logo. That’s generational wealth. How’d it happen?
Mathematics: It’s still surreal. I was in 40 Projects. RZA called me—needed the logo the next day. I got a 40, rolled a blunt, sat on the floor and drew it. Next morning, I handed it off at my construction job. He, Ghost, Power, and Divine looked at it and said, “This is it.”
DJ Thoro: It’s up there with the Nike swoosh or the Jordan logo.
Mathematics: Real talk. I still see people wearing it and they don’t even know I’m the one who made it. I’ll be like, “Nice shirt,” and keep it movin’.
Chuck Creekmur: What’s your take on AI?
Mathematics: I was skeptical. But for the Mandingo video, I couldn’t align everyone’s schedule, so I used AI. But I also got a real mini-movie dropping with actors and a director. Use both. Maximize your tools.
DJ Thoro: One artist, any genre, dead or alive. Who you doing a full album with?
Mathematics: Marvin Gaye. Musical genius. Plays instruments. That would be magic.
Chuck Creekmur: What’s next?
Mathematics: Let the album breathe. Let people digest the full body of work. People don’t do albums anymore—they drop singles. I still believe in vision, in art you can hold. That’s what I made.
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